Ray, Mark, and Oscar are joined by Erwin Lutzer, former pastor at Moody Church in Chicago, to discuss his latest book. Erwin begins by reflecting on changes in church and culture, noting how society’s view of God has shifted. He wrote this book because many today neglect the God of the Old Testament, embracing a customized, sin-friendly version of God. Erwin emphasizes that God’s truth, morality, and law are unchanging and necessary for salvation.

Erwin warns against creating a self-made god, explaining that doing so prevents people from confronting their sin. God is the same in both the Old and New Testaments, justifying His righteousness through Christ on the cross. The New Testament intensifies both God’s love and His wrath. He highlights the danger of desire-driven theology, likening it to going to bed thirsty and waking up unfulfilled. True transformation comes from acknowledging God as He is, not as we wish Him to be. The group discusses how people today seek a god who never disagrees with them, narrowing the gap between God and humanity. Erwin points to idolatry as self-delusion, comparing it to Israel’s cycle of rebellion and accountability. He stresses that we must encounter God’s holiness at Mt. Sinai before experiencing His grace at Mt. Zion. 

Erwin explains that the human heart is deeply sinful and incapable of self-redemption. He critiques modern beliefs in human goodness, calling them misleading. Only through God’s grace, entirely undeserved, can sinners be redeemed. God changes those who are His, giving them a new nature and a love for Him. He lifts believers from the pit of sin, offering true direction through His Word. To recapture a high view of God, Erwin urges believers to engage deeply with scripture, like the Sermon on the Mount. He laments the lack of fear of God in today’s society and the neglect of discipleship among Christians. Messages often focus solely on God’s love, ignoring His judgment and holiness. True faith should lead to sanctification—a recognition of grace that inspires service to God. 

The fear of God, Erwin notes, is the beginning of wisdom. Trusting in God, especially in vulnerable moments, brings clarity amid chaos. Wrath and grace are not opposites; they meet at the cross, where Christ bore God’s wrath so believers could receive His grace. Erwin shares a story of repentance among Nazis to illustrate the incredible scandal of grace, reminding listeners of God’s love and justice displayed through Christ.