Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar are joined by Dr. Greg Gifford, Assistant Professor of Biblical Counseling at The Master’s University and author of a new book that challenges the roots of modern psychology from a biblical perspective. As a counselor, Greg has noticed oddities in therapy methods that often fail to address the root of the issue for Christians. Instead of demonizing individuals or dismissing therapy completely, Greg encourages believers to explore how psychology and psychiatry differ, what Scripture says about the mind and soul, and how biblical counseling provides a Christ-centered alternative to mainstream therapeutic practices.

Biblical counseling views the Bible as the ultimate authority, contrasting with secular therapy that places the self as the highest truth. A key issue raised is the confusion between mind and brain. The mind is connected to the inner person—the heart, thoughts, and soul—while the brain is part of the physical body. Using medication to treat the brain may relieve symptoms, but if no physical cause is identified, the believer should be open to spiritual self-examination and repentance. Greg urges listeners to seek out certified biblical counselors who base their guidance on the authority of God’s Word. Red flags in counseling include seeking advice from those who do not share a biblical worldview, as they could mislead rather than direct toward Christ.

E.Z. raises the topic of shame, which is often avoided in today’s culture but is understood biblically as a way to guide one toward repentance. The aim is not to remove shame entirely but to let it serve its purpose in the process of confession, repentance, and restoration. Greg’s nuanced perspective recognizes that people can suffer deeply but challenges the modern labeling of it as a disease of the mind. Understanding the difference between brain and mind is essential. Christians are encouraged to consider whether their reliance on medication is covering up deeper spiritual needs. The Bible addresses restlessness, identity, and suffering, offering hope and healing that secular therapy cannot provide.

Toward the end, Mark asks a bold question about the blind spots in biblical counseling. Greg responds by urging the church to focus not only on critiquing secular approaches but also on addressing the root causes of issues. The conversation ends with a reminder that Christians are not defined by their diagnoses or struggles—they are defined by Christ. Greg encourages listeners to be skeptical not of truth but of man-centered approaches that fail to rely on the sufficiency of Scripture.